In the Season 1 finale, Spark Science interviews Comedian and founder of the Upfront Theater in Bellingham, WA, Ryan Stiles. We discuss the difference between improv and stand up comedy, how one teaches comedy and the benefits of laughter.
Spark Science Podcast
The Science of Improv with Ryan Stiles and Oona Cava
[♪ Blackalicious rapping Chemical Calisthenics ♪]
♪ Neutron, proton, mass defect, lyrical oxidation, yo irrelevant
♪ Mass spectrograph, pure electron volt, atomic energy erupting
♪ As I get all open on betatron, gamma rays thermo cracking
♪ Cyclotron and any and every mic
♪ You’re on trans iridium, if you’re always uranium
♪ Molecules, spontaneous combustion, pow
♪ Law of de-fi-nite pro-por-tion, gain-ing weight
♪ I’m every element around]
Regina: Welcome to Spark Science, where we explore stories of human curiosity. I’m Regina Barber DeGraaff. I’m a physics professor at Western Washington University. I can’t say that properly but that’s okay. And I’m here with improviser, my co-host, entertainer, Jordan Baker.
Jordan: Yeah.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah, I’m an entertainer.
Regina: You are an entertainer.
Jordan: Right.
Regina: And not just on this show, but like on the stage.
Jordan. Right, yeah. On the stage. At work.
Regina: At the Upfront.
Jordan: At the Upfront.
Regina: At work.
Jordan: When I serve meat to my customers I like to give them a little . . .
Regina: You juggle with the meat.
Jordan: Yeah. And knives, tenderloin, and a chuck steak at the same time. I’m getting pretty good.
Regina: I’m excited about today’s show. We actually interviewed your boss at the Upfront, famed comedian Ryan Stiles.
Jordan: We did.
Regina: We did. And we talked about the process of improv, and we thought we’d also bring in somebody who knows more about maybe the technical part of the process of improv and maybe studied it a little more, so . . .
Jordan: Who is that?
Regina: So we brought in . . . I’ll let you introduce her, actually.
Jordan: This is Oona Cava.
Regina: And she used to be your improv instructor, right?
Jordan: Yeah, she was my teacher for . . . they have classes from 100 to 500, and she was my teacher for 100, 200, and 400 I believe.
Oona: I think that sounds right.
Regina: You sound very educated, Jordan, I mean you took this whole series of improv classes, I mean . . .
Jordan: Nah.
Regina: I’m being serious.
Jordan: anybody can take them, right?
Regina: There’s no application process?
Jordan: Nope. There’s no application. You start at 100 and they have special classes now for people who fail . . .
Regina: I’m sure some people fail though, right?
Jordan: No. Can you fail? I don’t think so.
Oona: If you were to fail it would be because you were being so socially evil to your fellow students that you would have to get 86’d, but it’s rarely happened.
Regina: Okay.
Jordan: But it has happened?
Oona: Maybe.
Jordan: I can’t confirm or deny.
Regina: Well today we want our process of improv show to kind of . . . we’re going to talk to you and we’re also going to have clips from our interview kind of in the show, too. So I want get started. You are an improv instructor, or were, or you still are?
Oona: I’m taking kind of a haitus, but I’ve been one for about 10 years.
Regina: Yeah, so you know about, like, the actual . . . How do you teach improv if that’s even possible? So, in our interview with Ryan Stiles, he’s been doing it for 30-some years, and this is something he just kind of learned over the years. But for those of us that love improv and want to learn about it and don’t have 30 years, how do you start?
Oona: Well, Ryan also took classes too, so people should know that. Long long ago.
Jordan: You just wake up one day and . . .
Oona: I get the feeling he was a natural. He was kind of a ringer, but he did take classes at Second City. So if you were interested . . .
Regina: Which he brought up very, very briefly, yeah.
Oona: Yes. And he also is a great teacher. Sometimes he teaches, and I’ve learned so much just in the short classes he’s taught too, he’s amazing.
So the first thing you could do if you were feeling like you were attracted to the idea but you were scared . . . You could take a free drop-in class. There are a couple different places in the community that do that. Obviously Upfront is the one I’d recommend. That’s just an hour- super, super chill. You don’t ever have to try to be funny or entertaining. You don’t need an acting background. You just go there and basically be as willing to participate as you would if you were, you know, maybe . . . I’m trying to think of a safe, silly example. You know, it’s the kind of thing you would do if you were . . .
Regina: Like a team-building exercise at work?
Oona: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Regina: Which are also scary. Now, I want to be honest here, I’m very scared of audience participation. Like if I ever went to a musical or anything . . .
Jordan: Oh, I still get terrified if I think someone’s going to drag me on stage.
Regina: Yeah, my arms go in like, folded arms, I get really small in my chair, like, “don’t look at me, don’t look at me,” so would I be able to do this?
Oona: Absolutely. The trick is that, and this really is one of the most important parts of learning improv, and remembering coming back to this even when you get more comfortable with it, because you’ll have a different kind of discomfort that will come up. But you take it in little bites, and they’re so small at first that they don’t feel like you’re performing. They don’t feel like you’re trying to be a comedian in any way, shape, or form. It might just be as simple as saying your name in a circle one at a time, or counting together with one or two little weird rules about, you know, we’ll count to seven and we’ll go around a certain other direction. I mean they’re just little tiny bite-sized things. And then, I’m not saying those won’t be scary, because they usually are for at least some of the people there, just because you’re putting yourself out there in a new way. And you’re kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop- “when am I going to be really uncomfortable?” And that’s very uncomfortable in itself. But the main thing about improv is that you start to embrace the fact that you’re always going to find something to be uncomfortable about. So instead of trying to get rid of that feeling, you just let it sit there with you while you keep on doing it. But that’s incremental too.
Regina: That sounds terrible.
Oona: Does it?
Regina: I myself am like an obsessive, like, anxious person. I dwell a lot.
Oona: Mhmm.
Regina: But you’re saying- Now I’m just thinking this is maybe what you mean, you’re in this safe group, so you don’t really have time to dwell for one. And then also, do you have people helping you with these new ideas? Is it like feeding off of each other so I can’t dwell as much, or would you say that’s not true?
Oona: I would say that you . . . I don’t want to sugar coat it. We all bring in our self-consciousnesses. We all bring in things that we are really hoping people won’t notice about us.
Regina: Yeah, well, I just say them, so people notice.
Oona: But we all have things. It’s usually multiple things. And if you think you’re confident maybe your thing is hoping to be thought of as confident, or funny, or successful. So we all bring in this baggage.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And so I think the fact that everyone is there to work together, and you very quickly realize that it’s not about what you do, it’s about how comfortable you make your partner, or partners. So the burden isn’t really on you for yourself. It’s not for you or your ego. Its there. Like if Jordan and I are in a scene together or just doing a very basic game, my only concern should be to listen clearly as much as I can to Jordan, and then do whatever I need to do to make him as at ease as possible.
Regina: So everyone’s sharing their neurosis.
Oona: Yeah.
Regina: Oh, that’s nice.
Regina: Well I did want to bring this up, because as you’re talking I keep on thinking that as a scientist you take your first science class ever, and they don’t expect you to be like, “now you’re a scientist.” Well I mean Sid the Science Kid, a pre-school show, says everyone’s a scientist. But I mean they don’t expect so much out of you that first class.
Oona: Right.
Regina: But in my opinion, in my view that I’m not an improv- I’m not a comedian, I just assume that people take these classes and think “oh I gotta be funny right now, like I gotta . . . I gotta skip all these steps and suddenly become this great improv entertainer and this great comedian “
Oona: Mmhmm.
Regina: And I think you’re right, I mean, you’d have to . . . you’d have to somehow make that person feel safe, and that it’s tiny steps, like you’re talking about. Just like in any science. Just like in anything that you’re learning.
Oona: Yep.
Regina: Yeah. And I never thought of it like that.
Oona: Well and the flip-side is that, as a teacher one of the most important things I have to get across to some of the students in every class I teach, in the begging classes anyway, is you know what, do not come in here with what you think is funny, do not perform, do not try to act, do not try to make anyone here laugh. Don’t try at all. Because you need to throw that out the window. Because if you’re pre-conceiving anything you’re not doing improve. They’re actually the harder students to make feel comfortable actually, because . . .
Regina: The one’s that think they’re funny?
Oona: Yeah.
Regina: Okay.
Oona: Or the one’s that think they already have it together.
Regina: So what was your first experience like? You walk into the door Jordan. This is your first improv class . . .
Jordan: No, well, I’ll start the story earlier.
Regina: Okay.
Jordan: I got a gift certificate for Christmas to take a class, and I almost threw up.
Regina: Really?
Jordan: Because I was so terrified, and I wanted to just cash it in and get the money back.
Regina: Well that’s what Boxing Day is for.
Jordan: Right, but they were closed so I couldn’t go back. But I was there and Oona actually sat us all down and, will like, you know, go through the names, and then she asked how you ended up starting to take the class, and there was like, I don’t know, the most gift certificates that anyone had brought to any class to actually take these classes.
Regina: So you were among friends because everyone else had gift certificates.
Jordan: Yeah they were like, “we didn’t really want to do it either but sombody gave it to us, so…”
Oona: But do you remember what I told that class? How I started? Someone gave me a gift certificate and I almost threw up and didn’t want to do it at all.
Regina: Oh my god.
Jordan: Kindred spirits.
Oona: Right!
Regina: That is so amazing. I bet everyone felt so much better.
Jordan: You’re listening to Spark Science. We’re talking about improv comedy today at KMRE 102.3 in Bellingham.
Regina: I’ve had so many students that are just like . . . I’ve never liked, or, I’ve always liked science but I never thought I could do it. And now I’m like, well, me too, you know I also didn’t get great grades, and they’re like “oh my god, what?” You know, so I think that’s really reassuring, because every time I… I’m scared of improv because of just being out there and just being in front of people and being embarrassed. And Ryan said this too, this idea of being embarrassed, it’s like, how do you get passed that? How did you get passed that idea of feeling embarrassed, or how do you get your students to get passed that?
Oona: Mhmm. Well one thing that I heard a hypnotherapist say a number of years ago that I’ve since started telling people is you’re not scared, you’re excited. It’s not necessarily fear, it’s just all this actual physical energy that’s just rushing through you for a lot of really good reasons. And so it’s felt like fear up to now, but is it really? Some of it is some of the time, but it’s not just that right?
Regina: Yeah, it’s fear for me.
Oona: Yeah, but at the same time . . . and then there’s also something else that I love to bring up is . . . I think his name is Julian Smith, and he wrote a book called, I think it’s called Flinch. He did a lot of research looking at our fight and flight.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And how basically you can start going towards that flinch kind of feeling any time you feel flinchy about something, that’s because purely because it’s new. There’s nothing wrong, it’s just our body has programmed our body to feel fear attached to that unknown, but it’s literally just unknown. And so I actually taught a whole 8-week class once called “Flinch-prov.” And this was with advanced students, where I just came up with . . .
Regina: You should take that Jordan.
Jordan: I should.
Oona: Well if I ever do it again! Well it was just to keep them back, go back to this scared point that maybe they hadn’t felt for a couple years because they’ve been doing improv for so long. So that they could kind of have a refresher. But aside from all those, you know, ideas that I picked up…
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: I think just letting them know that checking in after and before every single exercise . . . “how do you feel? Was that scary?” And I was a person who had so much self-consciousness, and my ego was really wrapped up in holding it together, so I didn’t want to do any weird sounds, I didn’t want to do any kind of movement that wasn’t perfect, I wanted to be funny and safe.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And so just sharing that with my students all the time, to the point where probably some of them were like, “actually we’re fine, we’re totally cool,” is a way I tend to help beginning students.
Regina: Again I can only relate this to teaching and science, because that’s all I am, but in science there’s like science education or research and they talk about how unless you feel uncomfortable you really have to push your boundaries, because if you always feel comfortable and you always feel safe, and you’re just memorizing, you’re really not learning. You know, you’re not really, you know, advancing your knowledge. And when you feel discomfort when you are struggling, that’s your brain actually learning, that’s what that is.
Oona: Mhmm.
Regina: So, I mean, I’m glad that in improv it’s like exactly the same.
Jordan: Yeah, I think some of my best shows, at least for me, were the ones that I got up and I was just, had that terrifying thought in my head of like super-nervous. And I probably haven’t felt that for like a year or so.
Regina: Right.
Jordan: And it’s, I don’t know, it’s just kind of made me feel like a mental plateu of where I can go. So maybe I just need to get out there and be a crazy spaghetti man or something, move around.
Regina: I think you’re absolutely right. I took a class, because I get free classes. I get them at Western too because I work, but when I worked at Bellevue I got like a free class. I took a language class, and I remember my first test, and my heart was pounding and I was like sweating. I hadn’t taken a class in like years, you know, as a student. And like the teacher was walking around and I was like, “why won’t she just sit down? She’s so loud!” And I was just freaking out, and I was like, “oh my god, this is what my students feel when I’m giving a physics test.” And so I tell this story to my students and I’m like “it’s always good for us Reginas to every once in awhile take class, you know, go back. ” And I’m like, “yeah so I feel the same thing as you do.” I got an A out of that class, but the point is . . .
Jordan: I rocked it.
Regina: I rocked it. But the point is that I was scared, yeah, so . . . But I want to take us back to what you said these students that come in with these pre-conceived notions that they’re funny, or they’re trying to make something funny because they find it funny or they want to say something that they find funny. So we brought this study up with this neuroscientist . . .
Jordan: Get it right.
Regina: Yeah. Jackie Rose. Dr. Jackie Rose brought this study up, and it was about these control groups where they were looking at . . . well one was a control group and they were looking at a cartoon. And they needed to make words, something funny, a joke out of it. And then comedians that had to make a joke out of this cartoon, and people that were somewhere in the middle. And they said that the part of the brain that was active in these FMRI’s when they were making up this joke was the same part that was active when they found something funny. But it was least active in these professional comedians. And I wanted to know what you thought about that?
Oona: Well, professional comedians take their craft so seriously and they . . . The one’s that I know and have met and have talked to about it and have even have sometimes helped with, you know, their sets . . . They’re just in this constant state of painstaking self-critical analysis.
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: And, so, even if you laugh, they might as you later, “why didn’t you laugh more?” I mean it’s . . . Their business is to be funny, and so it’s a very rational harnessing of a creative impulse, and by the time it gets to an audience it’s just been marinating, and carved, and shaped, and marinated again. I remember hearing an NPR story about a journalist who traveled with George Burns, and George Burns did one thing different in one joke in one of the many nights she was on tour with him, and it was something tiny, like the way he moved or something. And afterwards that’s all he wanted to talk about, was if whether that was bad or good and how he could make it even better, and you know, this was towards the end of his life.
Regina: Wow, right.
Oona: And so I think that’s a pretty good example of the way most comedians end up thinking.
Regina: Yeah. That’s what I said to Jackie Rose, basically, that they were like, analyzing this like a science.
Oona: Yeah!
Regina: So you have a master’s degree in adult education, right?
Oona: Mhmm.
Regina: And so what did you do your dissertation, or sorry, your thesis on?
Oona: My master’s thesis?
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: I looked at using improv as a tool for transformative learning for adult learners. So I was looking at how the field of transformative learning has to do with changing your meaning perspectives, and once that’s changed you have a completely new and different way of looking at that particular part of your life. And I’m not talking about literacy or anything, you know, typical school. I’m talking about the way you think about yourself in relation to others, or what scares you or makes you feel self-confident or self-conscious. I can’t talk today.
Regina: That’s alright.
Oona: But there we go. Anyway, so I looked at a bunch of improvisers that I had taken classes with and I followed about four of them for a very long period of time and just interviewed with them. There was a very obvious . . . it definitely had a huge impact on each of them. And I just ended up seeing it one particular type of improv- game and performance, but just from all my years of doing it I think.
Regina: Which game?
Oona: Well it wasn’t a game as much as um . . . it’s called status work where you seem high or low status. The same way when I say status I don’t mean money, but I mean more in the animal world, you know, like whether you’re an alpha or very low on the totem pole.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And so there are things you can do physically to be perceived as higher or low status or somewhere in the middle.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And in my study, independently of each other without ever talking about it, they each started using status in their personal lives and in their careers, and they were having a lot of fun with it. And so things that used to stress them out, whether it was big social occasions, or one of them was in charge of a non-profit and just had to be constantly juggling problems all the time.
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: Just in all these different ways they were using status as a little personal joke. They were playing a game all the time, but it was also elevating them and making them appear so much more strong and confident.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And so if they said “I’m going to go to this, um . . .” I think one person had to go to kind of like a, you know, like a non-profit ball kind of thing. And usually that would stress her out, plus she was in charge of it, but if she had said “I’m going to be really confident tonight,” that may or may not have gone well for her, but instead she just had this private game she was playing.
Regina: That’s awesome.
Oona: Yeah!
Regina: I need that.
Oona: It’s amazing. Well there’s a lot of theory on game theory.
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: And play theory.
Regina: Like power poses and stuff?
Oona: I don’t know about power poses.
Regina: I’ve had other professors talk about like this idea of power poses where you have the whole class like make their most powerful, like, pose, you know like put their arms up and like, “I’m so strong I’m awesome!” and just say great things about themselves and make themselves as big as possible, and then sit down and take the test. And that way it gets all their energy out and makes them feel positive right before they’re taking the test, and confident in a way. So that’s probably the, I don’t know . . .
Oona: I think it’s the same outcome.
Regina: Yeah.
Oona: Yeah, no I think they’re definitely related. The only difference is that instead of having someone have them do that deliberately for that purpose, these people are doing it because this is a really cool time for me to have this really fun game that only I know I’m playing.
Regina: Right.
Oona: It wasn’t to succeed, it was just to give themselves something to do in these moments that they were living, and then “wow it worked, I’ll do it again!”
Regina: It would be cool if someone else at the ball was playing the game, though, and you were taking tallies and stuff. That would be awesome.
Oona: You could do that, you could probably set something up.
Regina: Right.
Oona: Yeah.
Jordan: I want to just piggy-back on that. When I first learned about that there was a book called Impro by Keith Johnstone, who was like sort of the guy who started improv, I think.
Oona: One of the main guys, yeah.
Jordan: Yeah.
Regina: What year did he start improv?
Oona: I think this was in the late 50’s or early 60’s.
Regina: Oh, okay. Beatniks. Go ahead.
Jordan: But that was where I learned about status, and like, I think I alluded to it when we were talking to Ryan about how I can look at somebody and kind of judge what they are thinking.
Regina: Right, how are read people.
Jordan: Yeah, basically how to read people. And it become my game at work because I deal with the public all the time, just to be able to look at them and assess them and play with them. I do it in social situations as well.
Regina: Okay.
Jordan: I’ll get close to somebody and watch them move away to like make space for me. Or I can . . . You know, I don’t know there’s just different fun things to do, and that really intrigued me.
Regina: Right. Yeah. Maybe I need to go to these classes. We’re going to take a quick break, and then when we come back I want to talk about how at Stony Brook the actor Allen Alda is talking about this- teaching improv to scientists to better communicate science. So we’ll come back and talk about that and we’ll also talk about the difference between improv and stand-up comedy.
[♪ Musical Interlude ♪]
Jordan: If you’re just joinng us, I’m Jordan Baker.
Regina: And I’m Regina Barber DeGraaff.
Jordan: This is Spark Science on KMRE 102.3 FM in Bellingham.
Ryan: Hey I’m Ryan Stiles, you may know me from my many years of playing the role of Doogie Howser [Joking.] And you are listening to KMRE LP 102.3 FM in Bellingham. Your community, your voice, your station.
Regina: Like I’ve mentioned before, we had a neuroscientist on, Dr. Rose, and she talked about a study that they were doing. She heard about this at a conference, where they were actually doing brain mapping of people doing improv, basically. They give them this, like, cartoon and said, like, “tell us a joke from this cartoon.” So, they had like, control group, which was like random people off the street.
Jordan: Did they have things stuck to their head? Was it that kind of thing?
Regina: No. No. Well, yeah, yeah, yes. They did.
Jordan: You laughed at me first and said no, and then you go “oh yeah, oh yeah right.” Oh yes they did.
Regina: Sorry I thought you meant like the comic stuck to their head. I was so confused.
Jordan: No, no, no. The probes.
Regina: Yeah, the probes! So they were trying to make a joke out of this cartoon they were given, and they had 3 groups and one was control group. Middle people were like people just learning comedy, like kind of trying out. The last group was like, professional comedians. And they were saying that as they were basically mapping out the brain, that the same place in your brain that like, basically lights up when you’re laughing is the same area that lights up when you’re trying to figure out a joke. However, it happened the least in the professional comedians.
Jordan: Oh really?
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: Oh.
Regina: So my hypothesis was that the professional comedians are actually like, trying to analyze this, trying to figure out what other people would find funny instead of what’s going to make them find it funny.
Jordan: That could be true.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: I don’t know, I don’t think that would be all comedians, necessarily.
Regina: Right, right.
Jordan: I mean, I’m sure there are some that just have fun with what they do that you might not see as much.
Regina: Yeah. Would that be a different part of the brain though? Is fun and laughter like this thing . . .
Jordan: I think, I think if you did it with stand-up comics it might be different than if you did it with improvisers.
Regina: That’s true.
Jordan: Because, I mean, we’ll tend to have fun on stage and laugh at each other, you know. I mean I laugh at people on stage all the time, which you aren’t going to do when you’re a comic.
Regina: Are you laughing with them or at them?
Jordan: Well, I just . . . a lot of things strike me as funny on stage.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: I’m certainly not going to try to suppress my laughter, just have to fit it in somehow.
Regina: Right. I do try to suppress my laughter, because . . . but uh, but maybe I shouldn’t.
Jordan: No, let it out.
Regina: Yeah. It could be offensive sometimes.
Jordan: You know it’s incredibly good for you.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: That’s science. What does it set off when you laugh? Is it the orphans?
Regina: Yeah, yeah.
Jordan: Is it orphans or dolphins?
Regina: It’s dolphins who have endorphins.
Jordan: Wouldn’t that be great? What’s the porpoise in that, really though? Oh, what!
Regina: Puns!
Jordan: Puns are great.
Regina: But actually . . . So there’s another article I was reading that said that like, the benefits of lighter, like . . . So these professors that study humor say it helps with blood flow.
Jordan: Of course.
Regina: It helps with like, heart disease, to laugh. It helps with just . . . Obviously depression and stuff like that.
Jordan: Right.
Regina: But um . . . There were these other things too, I don’t remember. Just tons of benefits! And then there was another article that said, “But it’s not all great.” I mean, laughter does increase the risk of having foreign objects go into your mouth.
Jordan: Oh yeah! Like a bird flying in there, yep.
Regina: That was my favorite article!
Jordan: There are dangers.
Regina: Right? It was trying to play down all these benefits.
Jordan: You could fall off something if you’re laughing really hard.
Regina: It was like, “you could choke, so don’t laugh.”
Jordan: Say you’re going to the washroom on a jet, and you suddenly start laughing and back into the door and release that thing and get sucked out.
Regina: Right, through that tiny hole.
Jordan: Yeah. I mean there’s a reason those old comics lived into their 90’s, you know. All those guys lived forever, you know. And that was back at a time when everyone smoked and drank and, you know. They just laughed all the time. They were just happy.
Regina: Yeah. And the other one was exercise. Like, laughing burns so many calories, in this article, and um . . . But another thing, in the study we were just talking about with comics not using a certain part of the brain as much as other people. It said, curiously, professional comics had a dip in activity in a part of the brain linked to depression. So perhaps the truth about the sad clown stereotype . . . You know . . . I was like, “wow.”
Jordan: I’m so sick of hearing about all that stuff. It doesn’t matter! I mean, you know, I’m sure, you know, Richard Pryor’s mother was a, you know, prostitute and he grew up in a brothel. And Robin William’s dad was like a big, huge business guy who made a fortune, you know. So it’s like . . .
Regina: Right.
Jordan: So it doesn’t . . . I mean happy, sad, I mean, you know . . .
Regina: Julia Louis-Dreyfus comes from like a millionaire family.
Jordan: Of course! Yeah!
Regina: Yeah, I just looked that up.
Jordan: She’s pretty happy.
Regina: Yeah. And she’s amazing.
Jordan: Wow, she’s very funny!
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: Very funny.
Regina: Yeah. Did she do improv?
Jordan: Well, she did Saturday Night Live.
Regina: That’s true, with her husband, who also did Saturday Night Live.
Jordan: Hall, Brad Hall?
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: She’s an improviser.
Regina: Well, the more you talk about this difference between improvising and stand-up . . . It’s fascinating me. I think that in improv you kind of make these connections. So as you were talking about it’s like freedom, and you have to be creative, and you . . . You said you don’t have to think quickly but I think you do.
Jordan: I do, but I don’t consider thinking quickly because that’s how I think all the time anyway, so, I mean . . .
Regina: Yeah!
There’s times when I’ll think quicker and I’ll think, “oh, I’m thinking quick.” But that’s probably the speed of sound.
Regina: Right. [Laughing.] “I’m amazing.”
Jordan: I really am something.
Regina: [Laughing.] Yeah. I was talking to you at the break, and beforehand. There are these like, classes that people are making for scientists. And like, one was called “Improv Science.” Another one, Allen Alda from M.A.S.H. is doing class at Stony Brook university for almost the last 10 years to teach, like, scientists how to communicate their science to the public. So, what do you think about that? Do you think scientists need some improv? Because maybe some of them are quick thinkers, but they’re just not thinking in the right way?
Jordan: Well you know, I mean, a lot of the people that take our classes at the theater don’t necessarily take them to be on stage and be funny. I mean, they’re taking them because they have to deal with the public in a format, you know, they just need to be more comfortable in front of them. Because it’s, you know, it’s the greatest fear for people to be in front of an audience, and, you know… If you took Robin Williams for instance, he was incredibly uncomfortable if it was just him and one other person in a room.
Regina: Really?
Jordan: Incredibly uncomfortable. But if you put him in front of a thousand people he’s fine.
Regina: Right. Yeah.
Jordan: You know? And it’s the same reason . . . I don’t think you really want people to know what you’re like if you’re improvising because it makes it harder to improvise. I mean . . . If there’s people that want to, if we’re on tour or something, and they want to come backstage and meet us or whatever, they always want to . . . You know, should we come back before or after? I’m always like, well come back after.
Regina: Right.
Jordan: Because I don’t want you to know me before I go on stage.
Regina: It’s that anticipation, it’s the . . .
Jordan: Well also I can play myself with just a little quirk, and if they don’t know me they think it’s a character, you know? Know what I’m saying? So I don’t want to know them, and I don’t want them to know me.
Regina: Right.
Jordan: It’s harder, if that’s the case. That’s why I hate it when my family to come to shows. It’s like “Ugh, my family’s here.”
Regina: Right.
Jordan: I have to worry about that? You know.
Regina: Yeah. Maybe they shouldn’t tell you.
Jordan: Because I know I’m performing to people I’ll probably never see again, which is fine.
Regina: I never think of that. See, as a professor you have to like, basically perform every day in front of like, 80 students.
Jordan: Right.
Regina: And they do kind of know you over and over and over again. Like when you do mess up they definitely know.
Jordan: Of course.
Regina: But at least you have somewhat . . . I mean, I think in improv you’re all kind of level in the same playing field, but as a professor maybe you have control of their grade? So that’s, I mean, they kind of have to laugh at my jokes. I mean, I don’t know.
Jordan: Well I mean you should control a crowd at the same time.
Regina: That’s true.
Jordan: And there’s nothing . . . Every once in awhile you have to put them . . . you know. If I go out and I see someone with their feet on the stage it drives me crazy, because that’s my church, you know. Don’t put your feet on my stage!
Regina: Right.
Jordan: You have nothing to do with this, get your feet off my stage!
Regina: You paid to see me!
Ryan: Well it’s my stage, it’s sacred, you know? That’s where I perform. But it . . . you know . . . Don’t put your feet on it.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: And a lot of time I have to deal with, like, hecklers and stuff in the middle. And not really hecklers but a lot . . . just drunk people who . . .
Ryan: Well and there’s another thing. With hecklers for instance, you know, for a stand-up, a stand-up has to deal with a heckler. If you are an improviser and someone starts heckling, and you continue and work, you know, with what you’re doing on stage, people in the audience will tell that person to shut up.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: Which you’re never going to see in a stand-up thing.
Regina: That’s true!
Ryan: Because they’re rooting for you. They’ve suggested what . . . They’re involved. They’re invested in the show.
Regina: Yeah!
Ryan: Don’t spoil our show. Whereas a stand-up, they’re waiting to see what the stand-up is going to say back to the person. They’re not going to stick up for the stand-up like they would stick up for the improviser.
Regina: When you’re saying that it makes me think, and the only way I can at all relate to this, because I don’t do this . . .
[♪ Musical Interlude ♪]
Jordan: You’re listening to Spark Science on KMRE 102.3 in Bellingham, and we’re talking about improv comedy today with Ryan Stiles.
Regina: So there are these students that are like, really, really rude. You know, like, you’ll be talking and they’ll interrupt you while you’re lecturing, they’ll answer questions in a really hostile way. And there was this one student and one day I just said, “Are you mad at me?” And I just said that like, in the middle of lecture, and he was like, “Oh my god, no!” I don’t think he understood he was being hostile, and then somebody in the front row, this woman turns around and she was like, “Because that’s what you sound like.”
Ryan: No, I would just be . . . I can’t imagine what kind of horrible day you must have had.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: You should really tell us about your day, because you’re just so angry . . . Obviously you need to tell us, get it out so you’re not such a dick!
Regina: Yeah! But you’re right about the investment, you know? Because the first day of class I have people talking about class norms, like, “What do we expect out of this class? What’s okay and what’s not okay?” And like, all the not super-vocal hostile students will come up and be like, “Well, don’t be a jerk, let people talk, don’t interrupt.” And like, you know, then we get two weeks in and now they’re invested. You know? And now, they know they will stick up for me, and they are on my side. So yeah.
Ryan: Yeah! And you know with improv too, if they see, it’s another thing, some comics will come out and like, they’ve got a style where it’s like, “you know, I’m going to tell you some jokes, but man it’s really a pain for me to be here.” You know? It’s that kind of you know, attitude, and after awhile it’s like, “Yeah, why don’t you just leave?”
Regina: [Laughing.] Yeah!
Ryan: Where , you know, if we’re having fun on stage, they see that.
Regina: Right.
Ryan: And they want to have fun with you, they don’t want to be left out, so . . . There’s nothing worse than that kind of Russel Crowe kind of, “I’m so hard-done by, you know . . . it’s $30,000,000, this picture, but it’s such a drag . . .” You know? It’s that kind of, I get that kind of vibe off of Russel Crowe all the time.
Regina: Have you ever met Russel Crowe?
Ryan: No, no, but I get that whole “oh my God this is just . . .” Yeah he probably would, because he’s such a horrible person.
Regina: [Laughing.]
Ryan: 1, 2, 3 . . . 5 of them.
Jordan: I’ve seen a lot of . . . We’ve talked about not shying, or shying away from what they’ve suggested, but a lot of the times most of the people are invested if you actually bring up point blank what their suggestion is, the people who suggested it, they just like clap and laugh and are all happy.
Regina: They want you to succeed because that’s what they suggested.
Ryan: Right. You know, a lot of times I’ll go out and talk to a crowd for about 5 or 10 minutes before the show, and then we won’t take a suggestion. We’ll just take down the lights and will just come out and start. Well…
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: Obviously a lot of that stuff is going to be incorporated into the show because it’s on your mind already.
Regina: Right.
Ryan: I mean if I talked to some Canadian whose come down in has RV to go to some store to buy milk, you know?
Regina: [Laughing] Some store?
Ryan: Something’s going to pop up somewhere, you know, either it’s going to be a scene about an RV or, you know, a Canadian invasion. Something will come up as we’re drawing off that, and they’ll know that.
Regina: Yeah. And there’s nothing they like better than also to hear a comedian laugh, right?
Ryan: Right. But they want to be part of it.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: They want to be part of it. They don’t want that wall between, and a lot of stand-ups do that, you know?
Regina: Yeah. But that’s what scientists do, that’s what Allen Alda is doing. He’s showing the scientists how to become relatable, how to take down that wall and use language that . . .
Ryan: Well he’s a very likable man.
Regina: Right.
Ryan: A very likeable man. He’s one of those guys who when you see him you just go, “I could, you know, have dinner with that guy and just hang out.”
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: He’s just that kind of guy.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: And you get vibes off people like that, you know who you want to see and who you don’t, you know?
Regina: Yes.
Ryan: I think that’s another good thing about being an improviser is you can judge people really well. You really can. The first 10 seconds of talking to someone I know whether I really want to spend a lot of time with that person or not, you know?
Regina: You know if they have a sense of humor or a stick up their butt?
Ryan: I just have no time for rude people. I just have no time. My life’s too short even to deal with that. And you know what? I don’t want to figure out. You know, I used to have one of these shows I was on . . . One of the producers was one of these guys who, when he came in you would figure out whether he was going to be in a good mood or a bad mood that day. I was like, “I don’t care, I really don’t care. I’m just not going to deal with you, because I don’t have to time to figure out how to deal with you, because I couldn’t care less.”
Regina: Those are tyrants. Yeah. I mean, isn’t that the word for it? I don’t know.
Ryan: This guy was. Yeah.
Ryan: And for me it’s helped me a lot doing customer service, just to be able to look at somebody’s posture and just be able to read them.
Regina: Really?
Ryan: And just know how to react to them, knowing how to establish status, and I can basically control what they’re buying.
Regina: Really?
Ryan: Yeah.
Regina: So there’s a lot of, like, I mean, sociology happening here.
Ryan: Oh yeah. And, you know, and we take short cuts on things, like if I go to the store and I see Jordan at the counter, the first thing I might say to him is, “what do you think about 4 and a half pounds? ” And he knows exactly what I mean.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: He knows exactly what I mean. He, you know, will get it, put it in, “yeah, okay,” you know… He knows a lot of roast is four-and-a-half pounds, and, you know, it’s . . . There are shortcuts that we do on stage, too, you know?
Regina: Right. With people? With the audience? Or with each other?
Ryan: It’s just . . . There’s no rules! I mean I’ve been on stage when I’ve brought a child up from the audience, and done a scene right away where that child is my child, and we’re talking about something, you know?
Regina: Right. And they just play along?
Ryan: They play along. I’ve done that, and you know the younger . . . I’ve taken eight year-olds, and you know . . .
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: “Want to tell me what happened in school today?”
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: And they’ll tell you, you know, “well I wasn’t behaving probably like I should.” And what’d we say would happen if that happened again? “I don’t get TV today.” Yeah, you don’t get TV, and you’re never going to learn to drive. Remember I told you you’re never going to learn to drive?
Regina: [Laughing.] He’s like an eight-year-old.
Ryan: “Yeah, I remember,” they’ll go along with you, “yeah I remember.”
Jordan: They are! They’re super quick.
Ryan: Mother has your suitcase over there, go pack it. And I want you out by morning.
Regina: [Laughing.]
Ryan: But they’ll play along with you!
Regina: Oh my god.
Ryan: Because they have no rules. They have no “how things should be” in their mind.
Regina: Right. So, so have you met a lot of scientists?
Ryan: No.
Regina: How many physicists have you met other than me?
Ryan: Five.
Regina: Okay, five.
Ryan: No, I don’t know. I don’t know what people do for . . . maybe. I might talk for someone for two hours and not know what they do.
Regina: Yeah that’s true. But, so I mean . . .
Ryan: Because I mean, when we’re on tour we get things where people go backstage and talk to us, and I have no idea what they do.
Regina: So the tour that you’re talking about, just for our listeners, is the Whose Line is it Anyway tour.
Ryan: Yeah, we still tour every once in awhile.
Regina: And you’re doing a show in Seattle, like, recent, right? Like a week?
Ryan: Next couple months or something like that.
Regina: Oh, okay. I’m totally off.
Ryan: You’re off.
Regina: I’m a great researcher.
Ryan: Yeah, it’s not in a week.
Regina: It’s not in a week! I don’t want to scare you. It’s next week, actually.
Ryan: No, it’s not.
Regina: Your agent calls me.
Ryan: That’s right. I don’t have an agent, so you’re wrong.
Regina: All this research for naught. But, I think that when you’re saying that like, breaking down these walls, trying to get away from these rules . . . Scientists are like, huge rule followers. I mean I am, I mean my friends are, right?
Ryan: You’re probably the most fun scientist I’ve met.
Regina: Really?
Ryan: Yeah. Because they have those rules, usually their like, “hmmm,” you know?
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: It’s like a 1970 Donald Sutherland movie, you know? There’s your professor. It’s like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, you know?
Regina: I actually did research with a Canadian man who looks exactly like Donald Sutherland, and sounds like him.
Ryan: That’s funny he always plays them in the movies. He’s always a professor. There’s nothing worse than watching . . . I can’t remember which James Bond movie it was where Halle Berry was the uh . . . What was she? A nuclear physicist?
Regina: No, you’re thinking of Denise Richards.
Ryan: Oh that’s right!
Regina: She was, uh, you’re the first person to get Denise Richards and Halle Berry mixed up.
Ryan: Right. Well Halle Berry played something too that she shouldn’t have.
Regina: She did. It was like an earlier one, or later, I don’t know. But all I remember is her bikini.
Ryan: I think Denise Richards was a nuclear physicist.
Regina: Yes, she was, or some sort of physicist. I didn’t see that one. And her name was like, Christmas . . .
Jordan: Yeah, Christmas something.
Regina: Something. Something terrible.
Ryan: And it was all shots in bikinis because that’s what physicists wear.
Regina: Right. That’s right. That’s what we wear. Even the men!
Ryan: Of course they do! Thongs, and, yeah.
Regina: Gender equal labs.
Ryan: Right.
Regina: But I think, yeah, there’s this idea of, like, not being free. I think in science we’re very kind of . . . I’ll just talk for . . .
Ryan: Are we still talking about the clothes?
Regina: Yeah! [Laughing.] No. We’re talking about emotions.
Ryan: Oh, emotions, okay.
Regina: Perceptions, personality. . . Um, I’m going to talk for all scientists now.
Ryan: Well, although, you know, look at Neil…
Regina: Neil deGrasse Tyson! He also has two last names, just like me. Yeah. He is fun.
Ryan: Funny and fun.
Regina: Yeah, he is fun. For me, it’s hard to find a lot of people that are as willing to talk about things that aren’t science than I am.
Ryan: Well, you maybe need a drink. Loosen up.
Regina: They do.
Ryan: A bottle of wine.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: Barry White?
Regina: There are a lot of . . .
Ryan: A whole lot of, you know, Barry White? A Bottle of wine? Just chill out a little bit.
Regina: He’s great. That’s true. It’s true. This whole show is to show that science is like, approachable, and scientists are approachable, so I’m just perpetuating the stereotype right now. I’m doing it.
Ryan: Good for you.
Regina: Good for me.
Ryan: I can’t even believe we’re not in the same room. Why do we have to have glass between us like this?
Regina: [Laughing.]
Ryan: I mean, you know . . .
Jordan: This is weird.
Regina: Why do you have a hazmat suit on?
Ryan: Why am I in the bathroom?
Regina: We’re actually skyping, everybody.
Ryan: I have no idea what that means.
Regina: Really? It’s video TV.
Ryan: Whatever.
Jordan: Facetime!
Ryan: I don’t have anything. I don’t have a website, I don’t have . . .
Regina: Don’t be so down on yourself.
Ryan: I don’t have Twitter, I don’t have a Facebook.
Jordan: He doesn’t even have an email.
Ryan: I do now, I think. I think I have an email.
Regina: Somebody else takes care of that.
Ryan: Because I have to have scripts sent and all that stuff.
Regina: Right. But you don’t just send them like big packs?
Ryan: But it’s not like something where I go home and check my email, you know?
Regina: Right. Right. We’re going to take another break, and when we come back we’ll talk about improv and science and TV.
[♪ Musical Interlude ♪]
Regina: If you’re just joining us, this is Spark Science on KMRE 102.3 Bellingham. I’m Regina Barber DeGraaf.
Jordan: And I’m Jordan Baker. We’re talking about the process of improv with comedian Ryan Stiles.
Jordan: welcome back to Spark Science, where we’re talking with Una Kava about improv, the process of improv. And we’re trying to figure out some stuff, and we’re going to talk right now about the Alan Alda Center. Alan is teaching improv to scientists.
Regina: Yeah. And this is at Stony Brook. This happened almost a decide ago, where he actually spearheaded this. He was like, “I think it would be a good idea if we used improv to help scientists communicate science to the public.” And this is what this show is trying to do, I don’t know if we’re succeeding. [Laughing] I think we are!
Jordan: Yeah, totally!
Regina: But, what do you think about that Una? Do you think that is something that is really needed, or do you think that it’s a good idea? I don’t know.
Oona: Well I’m kind of playing with it in my mind. Is his motivation to get them to be better communicators, or is it also to create more entertaining presentations for the consumers of the presentations.
Regina: Yeah! Both.
Oona: Because in both ways improv is really helpful. You know there’s always research professors at the university because they’re so brilliant, but they’re terrible to take a class from.
Regina: Yeah, me being one of them.
Oona: [Laughing.] No, I took one from a very famous linguist, and it was the most boring and terrifying class that I ever took. And who knows, maybe if she ahead taken some improv and just kind of found a way to . . . Yeah, actually now that I’m thinking about it, because improv is about . . .
Regina: I like this process though, we’re hearing about it on the radio.
Oona: Yeah, you’re hearing me brainstorm. Because improv is about being responsive to the people that you’re wanting to connect with, or the people that you’re not wanting to connect with that are there. It’s all about being in a dialogue.
Regina: Right.
And it’s in service in the event and of the audience and of your other players, not necessarily in that order. It’s probably the players first. So, it’s not about you. So I think that that’s something that’s probably helps for scientists that don’t think of themselves as being good with people, is just to be like, “well it’s not about me and my limitations,” it’s, “what do I need to do to get it out there for them to understand and enjoy.”
Regina: And I mean, studies have shown the more you engage the class, right, the more you engage the students, the better they learn.
Oona: Well, yeah.
Regina: Especially with certain subjects in science that are really really scary, like math and physics for a lot of students . . . The more they’re part of it- so when we’re talking to Ryan and Jordan, we were talking about the audience really part of that improv experience- the more you kind of learn those skills, how do you get the students, like, kind of to commit or to be part of the whole learning process, and I think it would be good. The more I’m talking about it the more I want to take this class and be embarrassed.
Oona: Well, I think you said it yourself, when you talked about sharing with your students that you were really scared in the class you took.
Regina: Right.
Oona: That’s the spirit of improv, is saying, “I actually now understand and am totally connected to, and I’m feeling empathy for how you guys are feeling right now, and I want you to not have to worry so much, that’s normal, it’s universal. You know, a lot of what we do as improvisers is based on, you know, there’s a circle of understanding that we share, we just think we’re different. And actually the differences that do exist are what make things delightful and funny and unique. I love watching Jordan because he’s this tall spaghetti guy, and he moves like nobody else.
Regina: He’s always moved like that, ever since he was a child.
Oona: [Laughing.] Well, now he gets to share that with people, and we love it! You know, I’m pretty sure you weren’t walking into your first class going, “Well I have one going thing for me, I love the way I move.” I mean maybe you were. [Laughing.] Maybe you’re just winking at everyone.
Jordan: I can do this! I can do the Gumby really good!
Oona: Right. And yet it’s really wonderful and people will, you know, people see you on stage and they know they’re going to have a great experience from that.
Regina: I think Jordan also has the benefit of . . . He’s a really tall guy, and for some people that might be intimidating, but there’s something about Jordan that’s just not intimidating. Is that an insult?
Jordan: I thank you. [Laughing.]
Regina: Because my husband is shorter than Jordan and they’ve known each other forever, but he I think does intimidate people because he looks like he’s grumpy like all the time.
Oona: He’s got resting grumpy face?
Regina: Yeah! I think this idea of also helping scientists communicate and telling them that communication and these social skills, and actually bringing people in is important. I think in science we don’t teach enough, and there’s tons of scientists that are just normal people. Again, we all just have more similarities than we have differences, but I think it’s just not taught in university this idea that you should be communicating with your students, you should be caring if they’re actually getting this science or not, and if they’re having a good time even. And I think that’s important to teach.
Oona: I agree.
Regina: I try.
Oona: I also think that it . . . One thing improv can show you is that it doesn’t take all that much to connect. It just might feel like it’s going to before you try it.
Regina: Right! Yeah.
Oona: We organized a class for people on this spectrum, the autism spectrum, and I’m not saying that scientists are all on the spectrum by any means . . .
Regina: There is this statistical higher number, but we’ll go on.
Oona: Well no, because they bring with them so many of the talents that are perfect for that.
Regina: Right.
Oona: But you know, part of it, when we were looking at how to teach the class was, something that’s great is if they know exactly, like, here are the rules of this game, and this game is about connection.
Regina: I love rules.
Oona: Right, so you’re actually going to get to practice connection in a safe place. And the more we’re going to talk about it we can fine-tune it.
Regina: Right.
Oona: So that’s another, I think aspect of why I think it can be really good- the Alen Alda institute.
Regina: Yeah. Yeah I think so too, and these rules to follow is something I would love to see, and I’ve actually known past scientists that are like me, really care about the communication, really want to make science accessible, and they’re like, “I wish all scientists just took a job in a class,” but I’m thinking all scientists need to take an improv class. That’s what they need to take.
Oona: I agree.
Regina: But what’s the difference, right? What’s the difference between improv, versus, like, memorized stand-up comedy routine. So we were talking to Ryan, and he has opinions on, like, very drastic differences between the two. I was looking at an article and it was talking about how, when you have a memorized comedy routine you’re definitely using different parts of your brain. You’re using parts of your brain that deal with memory. It says here hippocampus. I think Jackie Rose talked about that.
Jordan: Sounds familiar.
Regina: Sounds familiar. And then an article talking about, like, rappers versus jazz musicians, and they were looking at, brain . . . And it is using a different part of the brain. How do you feel about that? Do you feel like a very . . . There’s a big difference between those two methods? Those two types of comedy, I should say.
Oona: Absolutely. I do. I think that, like we talked about before, a stand-up is trying to finesse something, memorize it, tweak it, stay really hyper-critical as they’re performing it so that they can continue to tweak it. You know, they’ll make notes often, they keep a little journal of every single set. It’s not even the content of the jokes alone, it’s the order that they tell them in, it’s everything. They also have to be thinking about . . . inevitably they’re going to get people hassling them.
Regina: Right, hecklers. We talked about that with Ryan too, so we can definitely talk about that more now.
Oona: Yeah. But a lot of them will, you know, figure out what works for them, and they’ll fine-tune that too. So it’s such a hyper-conscious exercise, all the time.
Regina: Right.
Oona: And at least the comedians I know, I mean they really approach it like a science, actually.
Regina: Right.
Oona: Whereas the improvisers who approach improv that way don’t get very far before they quit. They get frustrated, they don’t understand why all their hard work isn’t paying off, and it’s not paying off because they’re not doing improv. They’re thinking ahead, they’re not responding, they’re reacting, or they’re just pushing their agenda on other people. And they’re not being very supportive because they’re just so hell-bent on getting their idea out there that they’ve already decided is funny.
Regina: Okay.
Oona: Usually playing with people like that is pretty uncomfortable too. Like you’ll do it, you’ll make it work, but you’ll prefer not to play with them if you have a choice.
Regina: So you’re an educator. What’s the analogy then, with like, traditional teaching, like, you know, Regina up front, lecture, lecture, lecture, versus like, I’m thinking that that’s kind of stand-up, right? That’s like, kind an analogy for stand-up.
Oona: Yeah.
Regina: And then like improv would be analogy to what kind of teaching then?
Oona: Um . . .
Regina: This is all selfish, I just want to know.
Oona: Sure, it’s experiential. Any kind of experiential learning project, where you might let your students pick a topic, and it’s something that actually gets them interacting with the topic directly instead of learning about it second or third hand. And by doing it and feeling it they then get to explore the quality of the experience, not just purely quantify it.
Regina: And they don’t really know what the outcome is yet, right?
Oona: And the outcome doesn’t matter, the outcome is the process.
Regina: Right.
Oona: one of my favorite improv teachers says that. He says the product is the process, and the process is the product of an improv show, and I completely agree with that. And I would also say that even though it is very qualitative, at the same time improv is quantity based, in that it’s not about how good you can be, it’s about how much you can put out there. And that doesn’t mean you’re constantly being hyper, it means you’re just going to put out offer after offer after offer, and maybe one or two of them will feel satisfying to you, and that’s completely okay.
Regina: Well that’s trial and error, that’s experimentation.
Oona: It is.
Regina: That’s life right?
Oona: Yeah.
Regina: I don’t know. So do you have anything to add, I mean what’s your view, Jordan, about the difference between like, stand-up and improv. I know you haven’t done stand-up, right? You’ve only done improv.
Jordan: No.
Regina: Are you terrified of stand-up?
Jordan: Oh, yeah. I think what Ryan said resonates with me, that with improv the crowd is for you. They want to be entertained. Whereas the stand-up crowd is really just like, “entertain me.”
Regina: Right.
Jordan: They’re not, you know . . . They assume you have these set jokes that you’ve fine-tuned.
Regina: Right.
Jordan: Yeah, they just want to be entertained. And I’m not that type of person. I, most of the time, have no idea why people laugh at the things I say.
Regina: [Laughing.]
Jordan: I honestly don’t.
Regina: Yeah.
Jordan: And so I feel like I couldn’t repeat that in a stand-up comedy set.
Regina: Right, right. It just makes me think, when, Oona, when you said that about how you would basically have to have your students basically touching the stuff and interacting. That’s basically where science teaching is going, now.
Oona: Good!
Regina: So it’s funny how, like, we’re going through these waves of lecture, students versus, you know, interaction, and I think that both have their pros and cons but I think that it would be really, really interesting to have more of a responsibility on the students to kind of interact and be part of learning. I think that would be awesome.
Oona: Yeah.
Regina: Maybe we should also have an improv class for students.
Oona: Totally.
Regina: Like first week, freshman, you know, move-in improv.
Jordan: Right.
Regina: I think that would be great.
Oona: Wait I actually have done that with Western, but it’s smaller, not like the whole Western student body, but with small groups it does, it seems to really help.
Regina: Oh my gosh, these are all things that I’m going to totally tell the dean of the college of science and engineering, which I also told Ryan.
Oona: Cool!
Regina: But thank you for talking with us, and thank you for helping us fill out our process of improv show.
Jordan: Yes, thank you very much.
Oona: My pleasure, thanks to both of you.
[♪ Musical Interlude ♪]
Jordan: You’re listening to Spark SCience on KMRE 102.3 in Bellingham, and we’re talking about improv comedy today with Ryan Stiles.
Regina: We always end this show with, basically, some reference to TV. Like, how is your . . .
Ryan: You do?
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: Oh!
Regina: Because I like TV.
Ryan: Yeah.
Regina: I like science.
Ryan: If you like TV you should get cable.
Regina: I know.
Ryan: Because you’re missing so much of TV.
Jordan: Instead of Hulu everything.
Regina: I give up cable so I wouldn’t fail out of grad school, and I just never had it back.
Ryan: Oh, okay. I understand.
Regina: The Upfront does do classes for like, team-building for companies and stuff like that, so I forget to mention but that’s kind of similar to this whole, like, kind of teaching scientists to communicate with each other and be a team.
Ryan: Right.
Regina: So, who kind of thought of that? I just wanted to ask that real quick. Because I think that’s kind of cool.
Ryan: I mean I’m sure that goes way back to Second City, and way back to some theater company in the 70’s or something, you know, I mean some commune somewhere.
Regina: So everyone does this? Like this is a…
Ryan: I’m sure George Carlin went somewhere and did a thing with, you know, someone back in the 70’s.
Regina: Is that really popular though, that you get a lot of businesses that do this, like, improv thing?
Ryan: Yeah, yeah.
Regina: And like, a lot of improv places just do this. This is how you make money?
Ryan: They make money that way, and it, you know, provides a service. You know, where else are you going to get comfortable on stage?
Regina: Right. That’s true.
Ryan: Again, a stand-up’s not going to go, “You know what you’ve gotta do is write some jokes.”
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: “Here’s how I would deliver that joke.”
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: Well that doesn’t help them, you know?
Regina: Right.
Ryan: “You’ve gotta find your persona.” Well, no you don’t. You just have to be comfortable with people, and that’s what we teach rather than writing jokes together.
Regina: I’m going to suggest to the college of science and engineering to hire the Upfront and teach scientists how to do improv.
Ryan: Then something came out of this.
Regina: Yeah, that’s right [laughing.]
Ryan: Then this has been a good day for me.
Regina: And in the end. In the end.
Ryan: [Singing] And in the end . . .
Regina: Yes, excellent.
Ryan: [Singing] The love we share . . . What is it? The love we . . .
Regina: I don’t know what that song is, is that The Doors?
Ryan: No it’s The Beatles.
Regina: Oh, well, then . . .
Ryan: [Singing] Equal to the love we take . . .
Jordan: This is what he does backstage before we go on.
Regina: Is it really? He doesn’t finish songs?
Ryan: I put things into people’s minds before we go backstage. And I listen to people talk about things backstage, and then I’ll bring them up on stage.
Jordan: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Getting loaded up with the stuff backstage.
Ryan: Like, why would you talk about it if you didn’t want me to bring it up? I don’t put it on him!
Regina: It’s Inception.
Ryan: I’ll maybe be that person.
Regina: Oh, okay.
Ryan: Yeah.
Regina: You’ll just give him the opening.
Ryan: Right.
Regina: Like, “Bananaphone.” That’s a song that gets stuck in people’s heads.
Jordan: “Bananaphone?”
Ryan: [Singing] Bananaphone. Doo doo Banana. Bananaphone.
Regina: [Singing] Bring bring bring bring bring [Laughing.] No, no!
Ryan: Now, that sticks in your mind.
Regina: No! You know what Bananaphone is though, right? [Singing] Bring bring bring bring bring, Bananaphone. Doo doo doo doo doo do.
Ryan: No idea. Never heard of that.
Regina: Are you serious?
Jordan: I don’t have kids yet.
Regina: No, that’s like, from the 20’s or something.
Jordan: He was born then, so . . .
Regina: In the 20’s? Really?
Ryan: You’re not gonna either, after, [Singing] buh duuh Banana. Banaphone.
Regina: [Laughing.] Or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10? The . . . Sesame Street.
Ryan: Sesame Street. Oh yeah, we know that one.
Regina: Yeah. That’s another one that gets stuck in the head.
Ryan: What’s that other one now? What’s that not on PBS anymore?
Regina: It’s gonna be on HBO.
Ryan: I think it already is, actually.
Regina: Is it?
Ryan: Yeah.
Regina: It’s gonna be Game of Thrones . . .
Ryan: Now there’s a lot of nudity and guns and drugs in it.
Regina: That’s right. And Dragons.
Jordan: Yeah. Gotta get some viewers!
Ryan: And dragons. Omar plays one of the uh . . .
Jordan: There’s always been dragons, though.
Ryan: I’m sorry I couldn’t give you any straight answers.
Regina: That’s alright.
Jordan: Quite alright.
Regina: I tried. That’s all . . .
Ryan: That’s not really what I do.
Regina: That’s alright. It’s the effort. It’s the effort.
Ryan: A lot of times I’ll do you know, radio shows and stuff, well they’ll be quite upset I didn’t give them any straight answers.
Regina: I don’t care.
Ryan: But I don’t know what they thought I was going to do.
Jordan: We’re just happy you got to spend some time with us.
Regina: Yeah.
Ryan: You know my son, when he was little, I don’t even know what grade he was in, grade 3 on 4 . . . The dads had to come in and talk about what they did for a living.
Regina: [Laughing.] Sorry, I shouldn’t have just started to laugh at that build up.
Ryan: And I came in and the teacher said, “what are you planning on doing?” And I said, “Well I thought I would, you know, take the kids and make them each an individual animal, and then give them an activity to do, and see if the other kids can guess what they’re doing.”
Regina: That’s awesome!
Ryan: And the teacher said, “What does that have to do with being a plumber?”
Regina: Oh no!
Jordan: [Laughing.]
Ryan: He was so ashamed of what I did he said I was a plumber. I said, “It doesn’t have anything to do with being a plumber.” So I had to explain to her what I did.
Regina: How old is he know?
Ryan: 21.
Regina: Okay, so he’s still ashamed.
Ryan: Still to this day I’m a plumber.
Jordan: Yeah, right.
Ryan: “My dad can fix that!”
Regina: [Laughing.] Yeah!
Jordan: “Hey let me call him.”
Ryan: “I’ll call him at work!”
Jordan: “He’s got a plunger!”
Ryan: “He’s got a van!”
Regina: Oh my god, when is my daughter going to be ashamed of me? Already happened.
Jordan: Yeah, it’s already happened.
Regina: She’s six.
Jordan: It’s too late.
Ryan: Yeah. It may have happened already.
Regina: It already did. It was the first day of school. Alright, well, thank you for coming to talk to us.
Ryan: Thanks for having me.
Jordan: Yes.
Regina: Thank you so much, and good luck on your tour.
Ryan: Thank you.
Regina: Yeah. And hopefully, I don’t know . . . Hopefully Jordan doesn’t bother you too much in the future.
Jordan: I always do.
Ryan: Never does. Four-and-a-half pounds.
Jordan: Four-and-a-half pounds.
Regina: Four-and-a-half pounds. That’s how much he weighs. He’s very skinny.
Ryan: Yeah.
Regina: Alright thank you so much.
Ryan: Thanks.
[♪ Music playing ♪]
Jordan: Thank you for joining us. We just spoke with comedian Ryan Stiles about the process of improv.
Regina: If you’ve missed any of our show, go to our website KMRE.org and click on the “Podcast” link. Our show is entirely volunteer run, and if you’d like to help us out, click on the button “donate.” Today’s episode was produced in the KMRE Spark Radio Studios, located at the Spark Museum on Bay Street in Bellingham.
Jordan: Our producer is Katie Kanutzen, and the engineer for today’s show is Eric Framutata. Our theme music is “Chemical Calisthenics” by Blackilicious, and “Wondaland” by Janelle Monae.
Here we go!
[♪ Blackalicious rapping Chemical Calisthenics ♪]
♪ Neutron, proton, mass defect, lyrical oxidation, yo irrelevant
♪ Mass spectrograph, pure electron volt, atomic energy erupting
♪ As I get all open on betatron, gamma rays thermo cracking
♪ Cyclotron and any and every mic
♪ You’re on trans iridium, if you’re always uranium
♪ Molecules, spontaneous combustion, pow
♪ Law of de-fi-nite pro-por-tion, gain-ing weight
♪ I’m every element around]