In this episode we have a round table discussion about what disaster and horror movies say about our society with WWU medical anthropology professor Dr. Sean Bruna and a couple of anthropology students.
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[♪Blackalicious rapping Chemical Calisthenics ♪]
♪ Neutron, proton, mass defect, lyrical oxidation, yo irrelevant
♪ Mass spectrograph, pure electron volt, atomic energy erupting
♪ As I get all open on betatron, gamma rays thermo cracking
♪ Cyclotron and any and every mic
♪ You’re on trans iridium, if you’re always uranium
♪ Molecules, spontaneous combustion, pow
♪ Law of de-fi-nite pro-por-tion, gain-ing weight
♪ I’m every element around
Dr. Regina Barber DeGraaff: Welcome to Spark Science. I’m Regina Barber DeGraaff. Today we’re going to talk about science, pseudoscience, and society. And I’m here with Kyle Mullins, and he is a cultural anthropology student. You are going to graduate, right?
Kyle Mullins: Yeah. I’m supposed to graduate this term.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Awesome. Supposed to?
Kyle Mullins: Supposed to.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: You are going to graduate.
Kyle Mullins: Yes. [Laughs.]
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Okay. And we’re here with his advisor, Dr. Sean Bruna. And you have been on our shown before. You were in–I forget–I think it was called the anthropology files.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Oh I think so, yeah. That was a fun one.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: That’s the show we did. So you can check it out. Go to Spark Science now. Check that out. And my co-host for the day, to stick with tradition, is another family member. For our listeners and viewers, you remember our other co-hosts have been my sister, my brother, and now, my father: Roman Barber Jr.
Roman Barber Jr: Hello everybody.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And he is also an anthropology student.
Roman Barber Jr: I’ll be a senior, graduating in the spring.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yes, at San Diego State.
Roman Barber Jr: Uh, yes, undergrad, and hopefully being accepted to the master’s program.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right. So, it’s awesome. We’ll talk about the whole background thing soon.
Roman Barber Jr: Okay.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah, okay! So today, I mean the title we all kind of agreed on was science, pseudoscience, and society cuz you all have some background in anthropology from varying levels. And, uhm, I want to start out with disaster movies. And I know we usually do our shows and the last thing we talk about is pop culture. But this episode, we’re just gonna kinda weave it through the whole episode.
First of all, there’s a new mummy movie that’s out.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Tom Cruise.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Tom Cruise.
Roman Barber Jr: Oh, no.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yes. And I want to talk about The Mummy movie. And I want to talk about like, all that stuff. But before we do that, was pop culture, any of the, like disaster movies, or any kind of movie about anthropology or sociology–did any of that get you into anthropology?
Dr. Sean Bruna: I hate to admit it, but India Jones got me into anthropology.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: We talked about this!
Dr. Sean Bruna: This is horrible. We talked about it previously.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: On the previous episode–
Dr. Sean Bruna: But I love disaster movies also because you see society completely get destroyed but you also see the way humanity is supposed to act and everyone rises up and accomplishes something.
Roman Barber Jr: And rebuilds.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Sometimes that happens.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Yeah somehow. Well, somehow, but in process you learn about humanity so I have to say that I love movies about disaster in society and they definitely got me engaged in anthropology.
Kyle Mullins: Yeah, definitely. For me, I was a pretty big follower of the zombie apocalypse fad. So like, you know, The Walking Dead and similar things . . .
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Is that not over now?
Kyle Mullins: It’s . . . it’s cooling down, quite a bit. But so the zombie fad is what really got me into it because not only were the zombies involved and that was the cool thing at the time, but they also had really robust commentaries on the human condition.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right.
Kyle Mullins: So, and, the more and more I noticed those, the more and more I also started pursuing anthropological thought, in a way. So . . .
Roman Barber Jr: And with me, those movies and those genres were very entertaining, but that really didn’t get me into anthropology. For me, I go back, obviously, way back, farther than these two and my daughter, and Roots was the thing that got me involved, so I was big into genealogy. And with me, genealogy just formed and morphed into a time machine. You go back into time. So, for me, it was a window going back into time and still being into this–this place.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I think of . . . I think of a lot of these movies, there–especially whether they’re disaster movies or movies that incorporate genealogies, they also teach us how we should act amongst generations and the different roles. I was thinking of one that . . . it’s not usually thought of as a movie about genealogy or kinship–I was thinking about The Birds, a different type of disaster movie.
I saw huge flock of birds outside and I went back to The Birds. And that’s a movie about different–perhaps one interpretation–different mother roles and who is actually part of your family. At the end of that movie, there’s a new character that joins part of a family. And I think, you know, whether–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I do not remember that movie at all. Can you give me some of the background?
Dr. Sean Bruna: Well, you have uh–
Roman Barber Jr: Just extreme fear.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Pretty much. You have a lot of birds that are in an area and then you have one individual that has a car outside, a male. You have another individual that might be female and another individual, and we learn different ways that individuals that may or may not be part of your family might act, and they come in and play different roles.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Okay.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And I think of that movie, and I think it’s a disaster movie where we learned about our history, our family, our genealogies in a way that’s very subtle, versus, say, Roots, which is kind of uh, much more overt, when we’re hearing about those histories. But they’re always–they’re all entertaining.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I did not make any of those relations with birds. So . . .
Dr. Sean Bruna: Yeah, well, I saw it as how, uh, at the time in the 50s, how a, different ways an individual should act in sort of a mothering role.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Sean Bruna: So one character goes through various different roles.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And like, protect people from these birds.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And whether other–yes, absolutely–whether other individuals would acknowledge that, sort of, acting or not and bring someone into a family.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right. Or just, like be like, “Whatever. I’m going to run.”
Dr. Sean Bruna: Or, “I’m outta here, you’re not part of my family. You’re not part of my adopted family that I’m bringing in. I’m out of here on my own.” Sure. Sure.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Which is great, cuz, I mean, you said this idea of these generational things. I have, like, multiple generations here. I’m much older than Kyle. We have these different generations but also I love that you’re talking about, uhm, these different disaster movies. That’s a theme in all of them, this idea of, like, who is part of my family? Who I will protect? Who will I help in this disaster and who will I not help? Right?
Dr. Sean Bruna: Absolutely. There’s different people that come in, and they all play a role in zombie movies. Inevitably, there are people that have been isolated that come together and they have to decide, “Are we gonna help each other out? Now we’re a new family.” 28 Days Later–the end of the movie is all about . . . the entire movie is about a family coming together, of individuals that don’t know each other. They survive in that case, at least for the short term.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: [Laughing.] “At least for the short term . . .”
Dr. Sean Bruna: But, I look at movies, I don’t know. I don’t know if you’d go through this or if you’d go through this. But when I watch movies now, I’m almost ruined in a sense because I’m looking at them at different levels. And it takes almost effort for me to step away and disappear into this story that’s being told.
Kyle Mullins: Right. And that’s one of the things that I’ll definitely do, especially with newer movies. I want to go into it, for like, at the least the firm time around, maybe even the second time around, like, I just want to go into this movie and enjoy it for what it is. And I have to keep that in mind constantly throughout the movie, where I’ll occasionally cook up a commentary. Like, I don’t know if any of you have seen Wonder Woman–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: No, I haven’t.
Roman Barber Jr: No, I didn’t.
Kyle Mullins: But, Wonder Woman is a great movie, I recommend it. But, throughout the whole thing I kept trying to cook up various commentaries and, like, trying to spot out what commentaries that the directors were issuing.
Roman Barber Jr: Mhmm.
Kyle Mullins: It’s just like, “Wait. No.” I just have to pause myself and say that I’m going to enjoy this movie. And like, movies are supposed to be entertaining and want to be entertained instead of, you know, engaging in whatever discourse that it may have to offer right now.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: So, I have a–I have a definitional kind of question: this idea of anthropology versus sociology. And as I scientist that’s not anywhere educated in this world–I took two anthropology classes. How–what is that distinction in academia? Like, what is the science between those two things?
Roman Barber Jr: Well . . .
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Ya, dad? [Laughs.]
Roman Barber Jr: For me, it’s a very fine line because you have anthropology where you want to go ahead and get into the minds of the people that you’re studying–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Roman Barber Jr: And see how they lived, how they survived, how they organized in the society–if it was tribal, if it was a higher-level into a more complex city-state. Sociology, it seems to kind of, be slightly on the other side of that line where it’s what they thought and what they believed in. So, to me, it’s very fine, to where you go back and forth between the anthropology and the sociology. And a lot of times, sociology can be dealt with with more modern times for the people of today, where anthropology would be dealing more into the people of the past.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: But isn’t that a very just–western centric? I mean like, when I growing up it just seemed to me like there was this distinction between sociology and anthropology was like–anthropology is those people, and sociology is us. And, like, that seemed very, just like western centric. And it seemed like, when you say modern–and I actually even said that when I was talking to Sean–and I was like, but modern doesn’t just mean white, white western society; it means everybody. And–
Roman Barber Jr: Present day.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah! Yeah! And there’s people that study different cultures that are happening right now. Right? And that’s still anthropology, but somehow–I was very confused about this distinction. So what would you say as the “professor”? Or Kyle?
Dr. Sean Bruna: “Ask the professor.” I’ll pass it on to one of them, the students.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Are you just testing him? No? [Laughs.]
Kyle Mullins: Well, uhm. I find it interesting that we brought that up because, like, if fits really well into what I’ve been doing as a student here, because I’ve done a lot of commentary on Orientalist perspective. And, uhm, you know the typical orientalist perspective is–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: That just sounds awful though, to me as an Asian person. That just sounds awful.
Kyle Mullins: Yeah. It totally is. And so, you know, it’s “us” as a western culture looking at, really, any other culture and being like, “Oh those poor unadvanced people. We should assist them in some way.”
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right. Right. “We gotta save ’em.”
Kyle Mullins: Exactly.
Roman Barber Jr: Educate them.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Kyle Mullins: Yeah. Saving. Educating.
Roman Barber Jr: Enlighten them.
Kyle Mullins: Enlightening. All of that kind of stuff. And I’ve done a whole bunch of stuff regarding orientalist perspectives in various classes that I’ve taken here. I think a lot of things that are common, both in sociology and anthropology, are–especially in the earlier stages of them as viable courses of study–the whole, way back in the day, that was kind of what it was, you know? And it’s been–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right.
Kyle Mullins: Since then, it’s been moving away from that in a more healthy perspective.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Kyle Mullins: But yeah, one of the things that I believe separates sociology from anthropology is, like, anthropology really delves into a broader aspect of an entire peoples.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Mhmm.
Kyle Mullins: Where as, like, sociology can tend to be a little more focused onto, like, individual social groupings and not necessarily the entire culture as a whole.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Okay.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Well said. I’d add one thing perhaps to that. I’d say that also the methods, perhaps, that anthropologists use are a little different.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yes, let’s get into the science so I understand.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Well, sociology may look . . . I mean, both of us, as–discipline sociologists and anthropologists look at practices throughout history, both contemporary in our backyards, further away. And throughout time, I think the methods anthropologists use might be a little be different, mainly participate observation. That’s really one of the core aspects of anthropology, particularly cultural anthropology or medical anthropology. Where on one end we can use data that someone else has collected, maybe it’s come from surveys, maybe it’s come from observational data.
Anthropologists might say that in order to come to a closer understanding of what’s happening amongst a particular group of people as you point out, that we’ll actually go and participate in ways that are appropriate. So we actually go out to communities. In my case, I partner up with community members for research projects and actually engage in practices there. And I think that is one of the main differences between anthropology, at least cultural anthropology, and sociology.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I mean, as a scientist, we in our fields try to be completely objective. Which we know as humans is impossible. But, I mean, you’re trying your best to be not in–not part of your subject matter, not part of your dataset. And you’re saying that in sociology that’s kind of where they’re trying to do this, but in cultural anthropology, you’re embedding yourself and you’re a participant, like you were saying.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Yeah, we really as anthropologists, we can only analyze the world through our eyes. And we try to understand how other individuals might understand the world. But it’s ultimately shaped by who we are.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: So, the way that I understand the world as a male, as a Latino, as an immigrant, is certainly gonna be different from the ways that other individuals understand the world. But, hopefully through our training as anthropologists we get better and better at understanding different perspectives, perhaps comparing them, and coming to new understandings. Whether or not we can ever do that is a good question.
Roman Barber Jr: Mhmm.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I mean, I don’t think we ever can, but perhaps when we partner with different groups of people for research we can come to a closer understanding of how we view the world.
Roman Barber Jr: And I truly believe where I was going before was that participating in the past–that is where anthropologists have to through away their old bones of colonialism.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Mhmm.
Roman Barber Jr: To where you are interacting but you are more or less trying to modify their society into yours.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And being aware to not do that.
Roman Barber Jr: Exactly. And more or less, put in the geek viewpoint now–is that Star Trek: the prime directive.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right.
Roman Barber Jr: You do not interact. You are observer. And that misses what I think is a modern day anthropologist should be doing to where they observe, try to understand, delve into their language so you can interact with them and communicate with them. Try to reach out into their religious beliefs, their political structure, but at the same time, you’re not going to try to modify or change it. Because that would be preventing you to try to understand it.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right. But that’s horribly difficult, I mean, the prime directive is broken, like, every other episode.
Roman Barber Jr: Exactly.
Dr. Sean Bruna: This is a great question though. In anthropology, I mean, by researching, by being anywhere and you’re just engaging in the world, we’re changing it.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Exactly.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And anthropologists clearly are aware of our history in that, colonialist history, which survives in some forms throughout today, we see in some research that’s conducted. What’s interesting perhaps is that my work is very applied. I do try to change the world in some ways.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah. You don’t do the prime directive.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Yeah. I’m a diabetes researcher for example. And diabetes is its own disaster movie taking place throughout the US right now in all sorts of communities.
Roman Barber Jr: All over the world.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And all over the world. And I research practices and try and understand with communities why diabetes might take hold, to present data that then communities can use to perhaps change a direction. So, I sometimes stay up at night wondering by doing this, will I–50 years, 100 years from now, 200 years from now–be seen within that community as somehow causing some harm that I didn’t forsee. Or, should I have been more of the Star Trek anthropologist who was just documenting.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Mhmm. Yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And that’s a difficult question. And every time I watch Star Trek that comes up. I think of my research methods.
Roman Barber Jr: Mhmm. Exactly.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Do you really?
Dr. Sean Bruna: Should I have that objective of just documenting or are there instances where change–where data should be presented possibility to create change. Maybe it just says I’ve become confused in the field, with everything happening, but it’s true.
Roman Barber Jr: Multitasker!
Dr. Sean Bruna: I, as researchers, I think we have these–
Roman Barber Jr: Yes!
Dr. Sean Bruna: –different perspectives–
Roman Barber Jr: Always.
Dr. Sean Bruna: –that we try and deal with. That’s a great interpretation for sure.
Roman Barber Jr: Same with the fine line between an anthropologist and an archaeologist, where you’re discovering–uncovering–but they both have different paths that they take in their study.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I like this idea of the difference between archaeology and anthropology.
Dr. Sean Bruna: And cultural anthropology.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And cultural anthropology!
Dr. Sean Bruna: Both are within anthropology, but we might say cultural anthropology and archaeology.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: So lets answer that question before we take our break: archaeology and cultural anthropology. Give us good definitions of those, and I’ll let Kyle and Sean take this away.
Kyle Mullins: Archaeology and cultural anthropology are two of the, like, what I like to call four pillars or the main courses of study in anthropology. The other two, are of course, linguistic anthropology and bioanthropology.
Roman Barber Jr: Mhmm.
Kyle Mullins: But the main defining line between cultural anth and archaeology, one is obviously the groundbreaking aspect and just the overall methods that you would use in archaeology versus cultural anthropology, because you obviously can’t due participant observation for an anthropological study. So . . .
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Because they’re not there anymore.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Yeah, exactly. So you’re breaking ground and you’re finding, potentially, relics in the different levels of the strata, whereas, you know, with cultural anthropology, you are dealing a lot more often with social strata, not physical strata of any sort.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Way to answer that beautifully. I think that’s a great way to–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: You’re very proud of your student!
Dr. Sean Bruna: You know, it’s nice when you can sit back and just let other folks take care of everything. I’m all for it.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Well let’s take a break, and then we’re gonna come back and really gonna dive into these disaster movies, like The Mummy.
[♪ Janelle Monae singing Wondaland ♪]
♪ Early late at night
♪ I wander off into a land
♪ You can go, but you mustn’t tell a soul
♪ There’s a world inside
♪ Where dreamers meet each other
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Welcome back to Spark Science. We’re talking science, pseudoscience, and society. And we are gonna just get into talking about disaster movies and how society behaves in those disaster movies.
Roman Barber Jr: The juicy part.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: The juicy part! So, we kind of alluded to The Mummy, 2012. So, what do we want to tackle first?
Dr. Sean Bruna: Well, I’ll talk about how I see movies. And you talked a little bit about this. Of how, you know, the ways we go in and watch movies maybe as anthropologists. And sometimes we struggle between enjoying the movie and then analyzing it.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I’ll just say I view movies and I’m watching for characters and–that tell us how we’re supposed to act in society. I look for how certain norms are reinforced. So when I watch something I see a character that’s teaching me a lesson as a way of acting or not acting.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I see myths that maybe I can act out later on as a costume for Halloween.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: [Laughs.]
Dr. Sean Bruna: Or maybe as I’m eating my cereal, my cereal–I’m, you know, relieving Star Wars as I look at the cereal box with Star Wars characters on it.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I see how movies tell me as an individual in society how I should live and–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And what do they trigger to, right?
Dr. Sean Bruna: And sometimes it’s, you know, I learn something I’m perhaps doing wrong or I should be doing differently, unless perhaps it’s an independent film which might be purposefully showing something different, in which case it comes all back again and I have the same exposure. So, I view movies, disaster movies in particular, from that lens right there.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Can I add to that? In this idea of when you’re looking at the characters, I spend way too much time and I think I–too much brainpower on–who does the director, who does the movie maker want me to like? Who do they want me to not like?
Roman Barber Jr: Hmm. That’s interesting.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: You know? And what does that say about our society, that this is the trope in which we as–we can identify, like, every man is a white man, right? We can all identify with him. But if it’s somebody else, we can’t really identify with him. Right? Like, who is it that’s . . . you know, we’re supposed to kind of root for and who is it we’re supposed to, like, boo? You know?
Dr. Sean Bruna: The way I see a lot of disaster movies is about reinforcing, and developing and reinforcing different types of characters that each have their own narratives in a situation. And that we identify with them and say, “Would I be that person? Would I be this person? What would I do in this scenario?” And there could be the most outrageous idea, like The Core. It’s an absolutely outrageous idea but there are different characters that are acting in a certain way and we identify with those and we say, “You know what? Here’s what I would do.” The Mummy? Which one am I in The Mummy? Who would I be when something like that happens? Would I be the individual that’s loading up gold on a camel and gonna get out there.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I love him. He’s my favorite.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Or would I be the individual that gets two six-shooters and runs, you know, into the cloud? Which one would I be? And I think, I think that’s why they’re so appealing, not because they may be true or not true, but because we really reflect on ourselves.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Let me rephrase that question then. My question then is, “Which disaster movie made you think most, like, actually tapped more into your anthropology training then, let’s say, one that was just like sheer candy?”
Dr. Sean Bruna: Any of the zombie movies, biological-contagion-outbreak-type movies.
Roman Barber Jr: Outbreak. Yeah, I was just thinking about that.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Because often times, the science in those is–it really varies whether it’s good or bad. And there’s glimpses of really wonderful science but there’s also this unknown, this fear of something we can’t control, like, we know just enough in society about, perhaps, viruses and biology and DNA, but maybe not enough to understand the science behind it. But again, you have an entire suite of characters and you’ll identify with one or more of those.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: You’ll identify with the medical anthropologist.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Those I–I look at those. As a medical anthropologist, especially as we have outbreaks with Ebola and different diseases around the world–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: In real life, yeah!
Dr. Sean Bruna: I watch the movies and I look at those and I say, “Wow. What would I do in these sorts of roles?” And I look at those, and I see them, you know, those perhaps draw me in more if I at least try to get rid of my anthro-lens and just enjoy the movie.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right. So, I mean, I’m not an anthropologist, so I don’t look at things as much from that lens. But what about you dad? A movie that made you think about when you’re currently–because you just moved back to school, now you’re in, at, you said, NEU State, what is kind of gotten you–gotten all of your anthropology skills as you’re watching a movie?
Roman Barber Jr: Uhm, so much propping, not so much anthropology, but more or less the analytical mind. And that would be a big part of being an anthropologist, to where you measure and you get into the writer’s head, you get into the director, and you get into the actors and they’re trying to fulfill the words on the paper.
And when you have good writing, it makes to be a good film and then it becomes entertaining. There’s not that many movies out there that actually are real-life, lived, and true to an anthropologist to where–you got Apocalypto, to where–it was a view of the Maya but there was a lot of drama, docudrama, put it into there.
Kyle Mullins: [Inaudible.]
Roman Barber Jr: Exactly.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I’m glad you talked about that. I never saw that. But go on.
Roman Barber Jr: To where, you have to put that aside as an anthropologist. Like, in being in mind, is–“Okay, put that aside, and just go with it.” And I think what you were trying to relay, that you have to just put that aside and say, “Okay. Is this gonna entertain me or am I gonna walk out in the middle of the movie?”
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Yeah. I’ve never done that yet. Doesn’t it show a little window into our society, that there are these disaster movies that are these huge things that we as humans are . . . I mean, let’s not kid ourselves, we’re afraid of these things. We have no control over the big earthquake that’s gonna come or an asteroid. But in the movie, somehow we have some essence of control. Like, we do, as a society, as the human race, we . . . some of us survive. Some of us fix it. Isn’t there something that says something but us, that’s part of, like, almost every disaster movie?
Dr. Sean Bruna: I think so. I think they’re speaking about, you know, fears that are out there, but also fears at a given time. I think movies are coming out at a specific time. So, The Mummy is something supernatural that causes, or could cause, the end of the world. Some individuals open up a casket and there’s a, uh, curse, and so on and so forth. It’s the end of the world.
2012 comes along, and the world is somehow changed. Environmental issues are in a different perspective. The way that we’re interacting with the world around us, the debates happening in society are more about environment, about ecology, about the politics of managing these, so the fear is no longer something supernatural that we’ve never heard of, or perhaps we shouldn’t disturb.
The fear is now an environmental thing that perhaps, outside of the movie theatre, we should be addressing it. And if we don’t–and this is the morality lesson of that movie–if we don’t address it, you know, what happens on this screen is gonna happen outside of the theatre. So, I think–
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Which plays to, I think, the pseudoscience thing too, right? Like–yeah.
Dr. Sean Bruna: I think so, that, well, that makes it exciting. It’s the pseudoscience. That’s the fun part of the “what if.”
Regina Barber DeGraaff: [Laughs.]
Kyle Mullins: Yeah, and I, it’s not even a disaster movie, but I think one of the movies that engages the most anthropological thought for me is Interstellar. It engages my anthropological mind quite a bit.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Oh definitely. Yeah.
Kyle Mullins: I mean, sure, from a physics perspective it may be complete and utter bull.
Roman Barber Jr: Yeah. It’s stretching it quite a bit.
Kyle Mullins: [Laughs.] But, all of the stuff surrounding the human condition–it’s very, to me it seems like a tangible end of the world vision.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Right.
Kyle Mullins: It’s one of the ones that seems most probable to me, which is what’s scary about it, but also really inspiring in a way.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: I can see that. It was a very human story. It was really a physics story.
Kyle Mullins: It was very–it had the human component everywhere.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Everywhere.
Kyle Mullins: Everywhere.
Roman Barber Jr: And hope.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: And hope, which is what we’ve decided kind of is basically the disaster movie essence. It’s hope.
Roman Barber Jr: Yes, in needs that component.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Definitely the emotions. There’s a lot of different–yeah–different perspectives and emotions that come in, really telling that human experience through a humans lens.
Kyle Mullins: And ethical issues too.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Oh, absolutely.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: So many.
Well, I want to thank you all for being here, Kyle and Sean, and my dad, who’s visiting me. This is his Father’s Day present, by the way. [Laughs.] All right, well thank you so much.
Dr. Sean Bruna: Thank you for tuning into Spark Science. This was science, pseudoscience, and society with me, Sean Bruna, anthropologist at WWU, WWU student and crew member, Kyle Mullins.
Roman Barber Jr: And Gina’s father, Roman Barber Jr, anthropology student at San Diego State.
Dr. Sean Bruna: This show was a collaboration between Western Washington University and KMRE’s Spark Radio. If you want to learn more, feel free to check out our website: sparksciencenow.com.
Regina Barber DeGraaff: Spark Science is produced in collaboration with KMRE’s Spark Radio and Western Washington University. We air weekly on 102.3 FM in Bellingham or KMRE.org streaming on Sundays at 5pm, Thursdays at noon, and Saturdays at 3pm. If there’s a science idea you’re curious about, send us an email or post a message on our Facebook page, Spark Science.
Today’s episode was recorded at the Digital Media Center at Western Washington University in Bellingham, Washington. Our producer is Regina Barber DeGraaff, the engineer for today’s show is Natalie Moore. Production was also done by Darion Brown, Suzanne Blaze, and the DMC crew. Our theme music is “Chemical Calisthenics” by Blackalicious and “Wondaland” by Janelle Monáe.
[♪ Blackalicious rapping Chemical Calisthenics ♪]
♪ Lead, gold, tin, iron, platinum, zinc, when I rap you think
♪ Iodine nitrate activate
♪ Red geranium, the only difference is I transmit sound
♪ Balance was unbalanced then you add a little talent in
♪ Careful, careful with those ingredients
♪ They could explode and blow up if you drop them
♪ And they hit the ground
[End of podcast.]